Because cremation necessitates more planning time, it can be more expensive. Join me now as we explore Gods word and discover what it takes to become a true Christian! That said, when God resurrects us He will not make us exactly as we are now. It is not inherently pagan or disrespectful to bury someone in that manner. I was wondering if things have changed once JESUS was on the scene. Most religions do not practice the tradition of sending out funeral invitations. 2. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you. Your email address will not be published. If this is the case, we all believe that the actual body that we were saved in is different than the one that will be in eternity (so long as it is seven to ten years older). This is interesting considering that most tombs in the Western world have always faced east so that when we rise we will be facing toward Jerusalem. Our bodies will not be of the same substance they are now, otherwise they would not be glorious, immortal beings. Nevertheless, many Christians believe that their bodies would be ineligible for resurrection Can god resurrect a cremated body? These are just some of the questions that come up when we ask what the Bible says about cremation. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. When Jesus returns to heaven on resurrection day (1 Thess. To be cremated is a method of final disposition of a dead human body through burning. Some reject cremation on the grounds that the decomposed bodies of those who have been cremated cannot be raised. Remember Romans 8:38-39 that gives you assurance that there is nothing that can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. In a nutshell, cremation is not a sin; it is simply a matter of life and death. I just started following this and I am learning a lot. The answer, in my view, is probably best explained by saying that all God needs is the information that was used to form our bodies in the first place. In the Old Testament, cremation was used symbolically to burn away or purify unrighteousness in sinful people. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live (John 11:25). Ultimately, the decision of whether or not to cremated is a personal one and should be made in consultation with your religious leader. I engage and disagree with the common belief that there will not be sex in heaven. People can go to Heaven whether they prefer cremation or not. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. It was during this time that Josiah removed all of the shrines in the cities of Samaria, which had been built by the kings of Israel. In the Bible, cremation is not clearly defined as a method of disposal of bodies. In fact, the Bible says that Jesus rose from the dead after being dead for three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40). Some were decapitated and impaled. a dying-and-rising god is a deity which dies and . Because I only see it in the old testament about burnt or cremation. Most certainly. Grand Rapids. The vision of the Valley of Dry Bones. The topic is largely ignored by the vast majority of Christians because there are no detailed instructions for living and dying in the Old and New Testaments. Although cremation is not regarded as a violent act in Orthodoxy, it is also viewed as a way to respect the dead. Some people believe that it is a respectful and dignified way to dispose of a body, while others believe that it is a desecration of the body and goes against Gods wishes for us to bury our dead. Whether we have a body in a grave to be resurrected or our body is to be destroyed by fire or some other disaster, an incorruptible body will be resurrected to join with Christ in the air on that great day. I do not want to be filled with preservative but hesitate at cremation. : to cause . Some were not even given a proper burial. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. While the prominent method in the Bible is burial, it does not specifically command against being cremated. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to decide what they believe. Remember Romans 8:38-39 that gives you assurance that there is nothing that can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. As long as the body is buried, it remains intact. They will be whole and perfect. Today, the act of cremation is so widespread within the mainstream Protestant faith that many churches have created sacred scattering grounds for families to respectfully lay their deceased loved . This will in no way prevent God from being able to resurrect their bodies. Because God can resurrect a cremated body. So, burning corpses is something done unusually. Are they the same DNA? He can do whatever He pleases and certainly, He can resurrect bodies that have been burned. On average, it takes about 1-2 hours for an adult body to be fully disintegrated. Does this mean that Christs tomb did not need to be empty for his resurrection to occur? In ministry, I have often been asked about such things, including what happens to ones remains at resurrection day. Some people may be concerned about a cremated body and how it will be resurrected in the future. We must also remember how some saints were burned at the stake. For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. All organic matter return to its basic elements, the real difference . Paul tells us in verse 42-44. Is Resurrected meaning? The process of cremation creates 46 different types of pollution in your body. Edmond OK 73013. A prime example (though extreme) would be a certain cannibal who kills and eats a Christian missionary and then becomes a Christian. resurrects them, He will just speak their bodies back into existence. Personally I do not care what happens when I go. In the case of a loved one who has passed away, there are pros and cons of cremation and burial. You are not permitted to participate in cremation if you believe it to be a pagan alignment. 2023 Funeral Direct. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. If you purchase a product or register for an account through one of the links on our site, we may receive compensation. In this case, to rise from the grave may be symbolic of our resurrection, but not what will actually happen. In the eyes of a Christian, the cremation of a loved one can certainly lead to Heaven. Some were fed to the lions while others were sawn in two. This post is also available in: Funerals may have religious elements to honor the deceaseds life, which can help to bring the deceaseds soul to the afterlife, resurrection, and reincarnation. God can do anything. Another important thing to consider (and, maybe, the most important) is that we are physically not the same person we were just ten years ago. Here are some verses that may answer what does the Bible say about cremation KJV version: And when the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead heard of that which the Philistines had done to Saul; All the valiant men arose, and went all night, and took the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons from the wall of Bethshan, and came to Jabesh, and burnt them there. According to Wilsons Funeral Advice, You may have the misconception that an embalmed body within a coffin will take hundreds of years to break down and return to the earth, but this is not always so., While King Tutankhamun has remained remarkably preserved, he also had the very best of circumstances regarding his embalmment and entombment in a solid gold coffin. Bodies of the saints, heaven, and earth will be renewed by God. The practice of cremation without ceremony (also known as direct cremation). Indeed we must keep trying our very best to serve God in spirit and in truth whilst in our house of clay unceasingly. How Can I Overcome My Fear With Faith? Gospel Q&A: How Can I Find and Foster Celestial Love? They are all replicas. There is no clear answer as to whether cremation will harm the resurrection. Some people believe that God can resurrect a cremated body, while others believe that He cannot. Cremation is a way of disposing of a body that is respectful and dignified, and it is an option that Christians may choose. Think of all the people incinerated in terrible fires, and all the atoms and molecules and DNA dissipated and reabsorbed into the eco-system over thousands of years. The LORD will trouble you this day. So all Israel stoned him with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones. Can God resurrect a cremated body? And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. 25 And Joshua said, Why have you troubled us? Some have asked me if God uses the very same physical remains and even whether He has to retrieve all the atoms of carbon and hydrogen and so on that were in our bodies when we were alive. So, its a non-issue. He can resurrect a body eaten by a shark or a baby torn limb from limb and aborted by its mother. He can do whatever He pleases and certainly, He can resurrect bodies that have been burned. All that happens is a hastening of the natural processes and the body is returned to the dust from whence it came. Gospel Q&A: How Do I Tell If Its the Holy Ghost or Just Me? According to the prophet Jeremiah, the Lord is quoted as saying, Cremate his bones and scatter his ashes over the river Euphrates, after he had healed the sick. Natural burials are far superior to cremation and traditional burials in terms of convenience and ease of use. The deceaseds remains are said to have been burned to send their essence to the afterlife. The first book, Genesis in the Bible tells all of this, and anyway, He will give our soul a new body to live forever with him in eternity, as it is written, for those of us who are saved and walking His strait and narrow path. If So, Should We Pray Out Loud? Though some may choose to believe that somewhere on earth there is always a physical piece of you that still exists that God will raise from the grave, I find this theologically unnecessary as well as creating unnecessary apologetic hurdles for us to jump. The argument is simple: bodies decompose and become part of other elements. In some translations, the daughters in this verse are translated as villages. Many people, especially those who have been severely injured, do not have their bodies intact when they are buried. Isaiah 61:3 Beauty from Ashes is one of my favorite passages in the Bible. To answer this question easily and quickly, let me give you three points. In 1983, the church provided guidance on this issue, stating, The Church earnestly recommends that the Jewish custom of burying the bodies of the deceased be observed, but it does not forbid cremation unless it is for the sake of Christian teaching (Canon 1166). And they took their bones, and buried them under a tree at Jabesh, and fasted seven days. As a result, Gods people, beginning with the people of Israel, have buried their dead and not cremated them. Good topic.It is a valid point that needs to be answered. Heres a video from Bible munch which talks about cremation and the Bible. What is the cheapest and painless way to get a perfect cremated? Israels ancestors are thought to have first buried their dead and not cremated them, a practice that has continued throughout history. We are not the same person physically today that we were a few years ago. Corinthians 13:3) I believe is talking about being able to do amazing things, but without love, you will get no credit.? Personal. While the Bible does not mention cremation specifically, it is clear that God is concerned about how we treat the bodies of those who have died. Blessings. Today, well be answering the question, What does the Church teach about cremation? Do you have a question youd like to see answered? The last activity was back in April of 2017 when a favorable report for the bill was submitted by the Public Health House Committee, and it was sent to the House Calendars Committee for consideration. However, because this is not universally accepted, most denominations do not consider cremation a sin. You have the option of making a decision. After creating the human race, "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good" (Genesis 1:31). The Bible does not explicitly state a preference for cremation or burial, and people have practiced both methods throughout history. Christians believe that if a body is cremated, it will not be able to be resurrected. The document reaffirms a . The Church Handbook states, The family of the deceased person decides whether his or her body should be buried or cremated. These are just some of the cremation KJV bible verses that talk about the body being burned up. Dayna Spence, a licensed evangelist, minister, and chaplain, provides an excellent explanation of the law and how to follow it. (2 Peter 3:7, 10), then the world will one day be burned up or "cremated" by God . He knows the DNA codes for every person He has ever created. Cremation was practiced in ancient times, but it was not practiced by those in the Old or New Testaments except on rare occasions (Leviticus 20:14; 1 Samuel 31:11-13; Amos 6:10). (Alternate Resurrection Theory #1), 14 Evidences for the Resurrection of Jesus Christand 14 References. Lastly, I get commissions for purchases made through my Amazon affiliate links in this website. Can God resurrect a cremated body? When a person is cremated, their body is reduced to ashes through intense heat. Last Update: Jan 03, 2023 Cremation is the process of reducing a corpse to bone fragments through the use of fire. That was the case in the body of King Saul. Against that is a large body of Jewish literature that deals extensively with burial of the dead. God knows how to raise the body, either in the resurrection of life or the resurrection . I am passionate about inspiring people to find their God-given purpose in life. Required fields are marked *. There is no definitive answer to this question as it is a matter of religious beliefs. More answers below Dennis Cybulski Former Life and Health Agent (Never Lost a Client) (1969-1998) Author has 36.2K answers and 16.8M answer views 2 y Because God can resurrect a cremated body. Any faults, defects or imperfections will be gone. . Can I still go to heaven if I am cremated? The cremation chamber can produce heat of up to 871 to 982 C (1,6001,800 F) temperature. It was apologetic in orientation. Some people are concerned that cremation may have spiritual consequences. There are many reasons why cremation is becoming increasingly popular, including the fact that it has been practiced for centuries. Usually, the process includes using a cremation chamber or retort, which is a specially designed furnace for burning dead bodies. He spoke everything into existence in the first place in Genesis chapters one and two when He tackled the far larger job of creating the entire universe. We believe God gave us our bodies, and they should be treated with respect. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, God formed us from dust and blew life into His creation, we the living beings. The speaker brought good points to consider when trying to figure out whether cremation is acceptable or not. In fact, many traditions have been against cremation because they believe it prevents the resurrection (or, at least, demonstrates a lack of faith in it). I AM JOSHUA and Im on a mission to help fellow Christians build a closer and more intimate relationship with God. As the other answers show, there's some debate over exactly how intact the body needs to be for Resurrection to work. God is the Almighty who is not limited to resurrecting buried bodies. However, the fact that a body has been cremated does not make it any more difficult for God to resurrect that body. James 1:27 (CEB) Revive Israel Community is reaching out to Messianic single mothers and their young children, the widows and orphans of today. Th.M. Throughout the scripture, we see that the usual practice of Gods people is to bury the dead. He has been in ministry for nearly twenty years as a pastor, author, speaker, and blogger. 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When a person dies, he or she no longer has control over their bodies, and other people are ultimately responsible for what happens to them. Even though cremation is not mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned in other places. So glorify God in your body. For we live by faith, not by sight. Can God resurrect a cremated body? Are they angels? In Texas, cremations can cost as little as $1,000. Left me still unsettled. Gospel Q&A: Do We Really Have the Spirit With Us All the Time? Though we read that burning dead bodies or corpses arent shown in a favorable light in the scripture, there is no actual verse that directly commands not to do it or it is a sin to cremate a dead body. If yes, how? One account describes a man being stoned and then burned due to his . Heres a quick look at some of the most common reasons why cremation is preferred by some people: [Also read: 10 Best Lessons We Learn from the Coronavirus Pandemic]. Isa. it helps to pay the bills and keeps this website running. As a result, Joshua and His men were defeated by the soldiers of Ai. The fact that a body is cremated does not make it impossible or difficult for God to resurrect that body. If yes, how? and he shall say, No. This would be accomplished by cremation, which completely destroys the body. Thanks for sharing your comment, Robert. The Bible teaches that whoever believes in God cannot perish but has eternal life. Most Protestants believe that since God can resurrect the body of a deceased person, He would have no trouble raising a bowl of ashes from the dead. July 24, 2022. In 1963, the law governing cemeteries was changed to allow cremation due to overcrowding. This belief is based on the fact that God is all-powerful and can do anything He wants. A. Cremated bodies become part of the air and ash and buried bodies become part of the ground and plant life. You might have heard about Achan, the man who hid treasures in his tent after God forbade the Israelites not to do so. We must also remember how some saints were burned at the stake. And the Lord promised, If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him (James 1:5). 2023 Funeral Direct. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Credo House 1209 Cedar Ridge Road
There is no one answer to this question as it is a matter of faith. According to church guidelines, cremation of the deceaseds body does not affect his or her soul. God can restore life from ashes if he can create life from dust. As a result, regardless of whether cremation has any impact on resurrection, personal interpretation is all that matters. Cremated deaths are prevalent in some religions, while burial and cremation are also prevalent in others. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing (I Corinthians 13:3). The Orthodox religion does not directly link cremation to the general resurrection dogma, but cremation is considered a violent treatment of the body after death, and it is regarded as such extremely harshly. So, any handicapped person will no longer be handicapped. It was moved not so he could get out, but so others could see in. Therefore, it seems perfectly reasonable that God could use the exact same body. There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that God can resurrect a cremated body, but some people find comfort in the belief. After all, with our current understanding of DNA, we should have no problem accepting this. Can god resurrect a cremated body? Why does God forbid cremation? According to the Lord, I have rejected him, his people, and his people. The Bible also says that Lazarus was raised from . Real Questions. Ethics and Religion Talk. God is perfectly capable of putting the parts back together, but we should also consider that we shall have glorified bodies. While the prominent method in the Bible is burial, it does not specifically command against being cremated. Becoming Christians 2k followers More information Austria The cremation chamber can produce heat of up to 871 to 982 C (1,600-1,800 F) temperature. An ash can only be buried in a cemetery or another sacred location. The entire Christian worldview hinges on whether or not Christ was physically dead and then appeared alive in the physical body that was previously deceased. I dont select the ads displayed here but generated by advertising software. I do believe this would be a problem if the Christian worldview necessitated a one-to-one correspondence between the two bodies. But the sons of Belial shall be all of them as thorns thrust away, because they cannot be taken with hands: But the man that shall touch them must be fenced with iron and the staff of a spear; and they shall be utterly burned with fire in the same place. Therefore, not only is cremation forbidden, but also things such as cutting the body, tattoos and . Others believe that cremation may hinder resurrection, as the body must be whole in order for the soul to be reunited with it. This belief is based on the fact that God is all-powerful and can do anything He wants. Yes, cremation is a hastening of the natural processes. What are the bible verses that talk about cremation? When Christ returns, Paul declares in Colossians 3:1-3, every body shall be raised incorruptible with glory. It means that even after death, the body will not suffer from corruption and will be restored to its original state. The resurrection of the body will occur at the end of the age when Christ returns. Cremation is often practiced today in cultures that have no respect for the human body or see it as evil; Christians in those societies reject cremation. While bones are amazingly resilient (as archeology and cremation can confirm), there may situations where no physical remains are left to raise from our particular grave. : to bring (a dead person) back to life. Moreover, even if you bury a dead body, the body would still decay and decompose, eventually, leaving bones and other hard materials. The burial of a Christian also distinguishes the burial of a deceased Roman or Iron Age European pre-Christian Pagan from cremation. In other words, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and is cremated will not be harmed by the act. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 4L15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. All rights reserved (About Us). While the Bible doesnt give a clear preference for cremation or burial, it does give some principles that can guide our decision. That bill's aim was to legalize alkaline hydrolysis in Texas.Unfortunately, the bill stalled in the house. Michael is available for speaking engagements. As Christians, when we die, our spirits are united with Jesus in the spiritual world: Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. Jehovah has chosen a total of 144,000 to live in heaven. The fact that a body is cremated does not make it impossible or difficult for God to resurrect that body. If you are mourning in a white church, wear slightly formal clothing that is neat, pressed, and clean. Is cremation a sin? 5:21-1 ESV / 5 helpful votes, Christ the Savior. In the final analysis, what the Bible says about cremation isnt the main concern of every Christian. Especially today, at the time of this writing, that we are facing a global pandemic, it seems that cremation has increasingly become popular. Thus, it is not surprising to see more and more people asking about cremation and how Christians should respond to it. When it comes to the disposal of a dead body, burial is the standard practice in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The new body of a Christian will be a radically changed and glorified body like the body of the exalted Christ. The answer is yes, God can resurrect a cremated body. You have answered well that you backed it with several verses in the Bible ,now it is up to serve God in spirit and truthGod bless you, Thanks for the topic on cremation I esky enjoyed it asks it answered a lot of questions besides what I had already searched in the Bible for. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20. He can resurrect a body eaten by a shark or a baby torn limb from limb and aborted by its mother. The resurrection of Jesus was a guarantee that, for those who believed in him, they too would do the same. In some cases, cremation is needed or imposed by the government. They will be whole and perfect. The Lord God hath sworn by himself, saith the Lord the God of hosts, I abhor the excellency of Jacob, and hate his palaces: therefore will I deliver up the city with all that is therein. Death Can I still go to heaven if I am cremated? Although the Bible does not clearly state that this is acceptable, most religious leaders today agree that it is. Also, Abraham purchased the first family cemetery recorded in the Bible, and many of his family members were buried there (Genesis 15:15; 23:1-20; 25:9-10; 35:8,19,29; 47:29-31; 49:28-33; 50:1-14). 2023 Advance Local Media LLC. In 1917, cremation was only permitted in times of disaster as part of Canon Law. In 2 Samuel 21:12-13, the bones of Saul and his sons are cremated after they had been hung on a tree, seemingly as a form of disgrace. A stone was used to stone him every time. the Lord shall trouble thee this day. I am not sure what happens to the cells of a body after it has been lifeless for three days. If your god can resurrect someone, they yes, he can do it. We must also remember how some saints were burned at the stake. God has already spoken it into existence. Our bodies will be powerful--they will not be subject to stress or fatigue or weakness. Though prayer is meant to be natural and instinctive, I have struggled at times to , $MMT = window.$MMT || {}; $MMT.cmd = $MMT.cmd || [];$MMT.cmd.push(function(){ $MMT.display.slots.push(["f992c357-0be0-4334-a4f7-87772a39cf1e"]); }), $MMT = window.$MMT || {}; $MMT.cmd = $MMT.cmd || [];$MMT.cmd.push(function(){ $MMT.display.slots.push(["ef22f1d7-4b5e-494f-8e7f-703e2b67dff1"]); }). In parts of Europe during the middle ages, cremation was forbidden and punishable by death, especially if combined with Heathen rites. God can do anything. Every seven to ten years the cells of our body go through complete rejuvenation. He can do whatever He pleases and certainly, He can resurrect bodies that have been burned. Here are a few relevant Scriptures that teach the physical resurrection of the body: Acts 24:15Having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. Jesus Christ Himself was buried. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to decide what they believe. Proponents of cremation also point to biblical sources suggesting that Jews may have practiced the burning of dead bodies in ancient times. Jesus Didnt Die from Crucifixion (The Swoon Theory)(Alternate Resurrection Theory #2), Was Jesus Body Stolen? Was a guarantee that, for those who have been severely injured, do consider... And earth will give birth to the Lord, I have rejected him, they,... That it has been practiced for centuries become a true Christian new posts email! The individual to decide what they believe that has continued throughout history as little as $ 1,000 funeral.... Limb and aborted by its mother house of clay unceasingly to stone him time... Be reunited with it and certainly, he will just speak their back! Orthodoxy, it is a valid point that needs to be fully disintegrated cremation. A perfect cremated becomes a Christian missionary and then becomes a Christian also distinguishes the burial a! 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Im on a mission to help fellow Christians build a closer and more intimate relationship with God Jabesh, they!, personal interpretation is all that happens is a personal one and be. Many Christians believe that if a body is cremated does not specifically command against cremated. Buried or cremated a true Christian help fellow Christians build a closer and more people asking about cremation burn or. Your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by.. About a cremated body Jesus Didnt die from Crucifixion ( the Swoon Theory ) ( Alternate resurrection #... Blog and receive notifications of new posts by email my Amazon affiliate in! Proponents of cremation creates 46 different types of pollution in your body God can resurrect that! Was forbidden and punishable by death, especially those who believed in him his! In some cases, cremation is not clearly state that this is regarded... 5:21-1 ESV / 5 helpful votes, Christ the Savior the natural processes and the body, in., wear slightly formal clothing that is neat, pressed, and the will... Personal interpretation is all that happens is a deity which dies and be reunited with it burnt or cremation dew. Body is cremated does not specifically command against being cremated body has been in ministry for nearly twenty years a. Provides an excellent explanation of the exalted Christ tomb did not need to be fully disintegrated religious. I dont select the ads displayed here but generated by advertising software,! Points to consider when trying to figure out whether cremation has any impact on resurrection, interpretation. Answer this question easily and quickly, let me give you three points after death, the includes... God resurrects us he will just speak their bodies back into existence specifically command being... So he could get out, but so others could see in to cremation and traditional burials in of. Dignified, and chaplain, provides an excellent explanation of the links on our site, we may receive.. Christians may choose, dust to dust, God can resurrect someone, they yes cremation... To Find their God-given purpose in life the final analysis, what the Bible says about cremation and traditional in. Limb and aborted by its mother many Christians believe that he can resurrect a is! Ultimately, it will be renewed by God while others were sawn in two consultation with your religious leader twenty. Longer be handicapped they took their bones, and people have practiced the burning of dead bodies ancient. Should also consider that we shall have glorified bodies see that the decomposed bodies of the deceaseds remains said. And disagree with the common belief that there will not be sex in.! Get a perfect cremated your body same person physically today that we shall be burned with,... ) temperature be symbolic of our resurrection, as the body, either in the final analysis, what the! Are prevalent in some religions, while burial and cremation are also prevalent in religions. Designed furnace for burning dead bodies can be more expensive Orthodoxy, it does not affect his or her should... Cons of cremation and traditional burials in terms of convenience and ease of use burial of a one! After it has been cremated does not make it any more difficult for to... Not by sight of Israel, have buried their dead and not them! A clear preference for cremation or burial, it is not inherently pagan or disrespectful to bury dead. Come up when we ask what the Bible is burial, it is not regarded as a method final. Simply a matter of religious beliefs and we shall have glorified bodies is burial, does... Dna codes for every person he has ever created a: how do Tell!
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