Additionally, the length of the barrel used in testing can have a major impact in the results. for Grizzly. I also carry .357 Sig In the winter time for thicker clothing on my would be enemies. It kills everything else. Yes Ive used other peoples experiences to enhance my knowledge. But, firing rounds takes time. As a retired LEO during the transition to semi-auto in the 80s, what is too politically incorrect and never mentioned is more females and smaller statured people entered the military and law enforcement. Praised for being compact and easier to handle than its .45 ACP counterpart, the 9mm has become one of the most popular rounds in the world. It's this ability of 9mm to produce enough energy and not over penetrate which makes me think it competes with the big guys. The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. I don't think one is better than the other either. I was one of those folks in the military in the 80's that had a 45 side-arm, so used to it. "the 9mm has evolved to the current power of the 45 acp" as if there have been no developments in the 45 acp and the 45 acp has stood still. This begs the question: is bigger necessarily better? Perhaps the slowing velocity is a factor here, but that seems unlikely to me. No matter what caliber you pick, we got you covered in our Best 9mm Ammo and Best .45 ACP Ammo reviews. 9mm is just as quiet if you opt for subsonic which takes away the muzzle velocity and negates the price difference. 9mm Luger Results in fps Click here for a Muzzle Energy graph for the tests in this caliber. 45 acp, with a father like the one we had, While I do agree with your statements about the improvements in ammo, I must disagree People tend to practice more with a weapon they are comfortable with. Due to the large amount of information gathered in this test, standard deviation and high/low velocities are not shown. I am not sure if i would like to be hit by one 45 acp or 4 high velocity hollow point 22's ( honestly i can say neither but i do not disagree just throwing my 2 cents in it is all about shot control and placement. So I purchased big bore gun :D and hope for rapid blood pressure drop which will cause unconsciousness, or that this bullet will go trought and break spine. Probably because it doesn't penetrate as far. The main argument is basically that once a threat a stopped, it can't really become more stopped. 1) by making bigger holes and 2) by making more holes. If you are using ap rounds in a home defense scenario and your shot goes through a wall and hits your neighbor, good luck justifying it in court. Abstract It also has a wide selection of ammunition types. The purpose of gun ownership in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny. Today's 45s aren't that slow. These are the ammo that most departments use. BUT, I have read that bear attacks are usually a big surprise to both the hiker and the bear, who have both been startled by each other's company. I'm not a big guy, 170 lb, I can easily carry 2 The 9mm generally comes in loads of between 88-147 grain. You DO have to have the spray handy though. Then the spray and pray method was adopted. Lend-lease conditions were allegedly exorbitant but the US manufacturing base was undeniably a godsend), plus some of the other margins you refer to were, frankly, too close to argue, so I wont even try. Almost reaching weak .44 mag specs Take the 155gr XTP 10mm round from Underwood. Type your email address and well send As you might imagine, muzzle velocity varies quite widely depending on the type of gun you are shooting. Maybe alternate .45 hollow point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator (best of both worlds). Per chance were you assigned to Devonshire Division of LAPD? Veteran SWAT freeze. Hum, didn't the 45 also get the benefit of those advancements? By Josh Wayner Plus they have extended mags of many sizes Or back the other way, you can run 9mm NATO, +P adn all of that song and dance. Velocity (FPS) Energy (ft/lb) 1135. If a DOE, were there any significant interactions? They took refuge in some kind of small room with a door on it. I may not always be there. you a link to reset your password. First of all, a higher muzzle velocity will mean a straighter trajectory down range. All the rest, including +p loads, came in under that number. By the time you've pulled the trigger with a .45, a 9mm can put 3 rounds in any anatomically advantageous area. Where's the test evidence? Lots of bullets. I want more rounds with less recoil. Everyone wants to put down the 45 and take up the 9 because they wont take the time and energy to get proficient with the 45, and if you are too weak or candy a## you never will master the 45. The velocities displayed are an average taken from six readings. If YOU Do!!". I knew folks who carried small .22LR automatics (Beretta etc) or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN. Thats what I carry now.Always will.When that loud bitch goes off it gets everyones attention..especially the turd youre trying to ghost. Speed is an important factor for ballistic performance, impacting accuracy, trajectory, energy, and penetration. I pushed a wire into the hole to see how far it penetrated. I have shot many things living and not w both calibers and i have to say that 45acp does noticeably more damage. But, like you said, all of this arguing is moot if you cant hit your target! Glocks are the best semi auto, there's no debate about it. Some can say that you can carry more rounds ina 9mm than a .45. Well it will make holes in bad guy/rabbid dog I am confident that I can stop attack with .22LR cause I can shoot 8 rounds in about 3 secconds center body mass, palm size group. The reality is that 30% is on the high side. The single action 1911 still offers the most accurate platform. If either 5.56 x 45 or 7.62 x 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be greater. Americans note that Europeans have small countries with a central government each, whereas the US is a country thousands of miles across with 367 million people, and a ton of different states. The 9mms lower cost and recoil make it an even more attractive solution for effective self-defense. Its still creating a bigger wound and crushing more tissue. An average muzzle velocity of 9mm ammunition, that being the energy the bullet leaves the barrel with, is around 1,200 feet per second (commonly abbreviated as fps or ft/s). Thank you. As good a reason as any, I guess. This really isn't the place for an in depth spiritual discussion, but your comment was interesting. The best ergonomics, the feel of the recoil, and let's not forget about how gorgeous it is! I'm not knocking the 9mm as a protection weapon. hands, it does have a MUCH snappier felt recoil. My 9mm is def better carrying size, 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby. But that's all a moot point. But can you deal with what you've done afterwards mentally? as are some of my other tests. What a glory to shoot, minimal recoil, and excellent stopping power. Again, you can cite all of your Google readings, real world outcomes are different. Years ago when 9mm was the craze I purchased a Browning model 39. That is why some like the 9mm short or .380. In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. The carbine barrel length does not improve the interior, exterior, or terminal ballistics of many popular hollowpoints at all, but the carbine barrel length does push some 9mm hollowpoints into the .357 Magnum bracket in terms of velocity, energy, wound ballistics, and tactical penetration. Firing the 9mm at the range was fun, then I fired the .45had to peel the smile off of my face. For sure we do not need guns for defense against other civilians. Whichever caliber you shoot most accurately. As you noted, better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger. Get that one and the ammo that fits in it. Along with comments as well! However, how about the hollow point bullets that's suppose to stop and explode once they enter the body.Is that a myth or not? I prefer the "slow" rolling impulse from a 45 than the more "snappy" 9mm recoil. If they've conducted studies and have a general opinion the 9mm is better for fire fights in the field, that is a very strong point in favor the the 9mm. But the data from all three sources tend to lean towards heavier bullets penetrating more than slower ones, and then tend to be more accurate. ERIC! I do just like the author says. Well cover the calibers capabilities and offer velocity, energy and bullet drop data for the most popular 919 loads at AmmoToGo.com. I hope this is of interest, Colin. wrist. An extended double stack .45 mag will give you the larger magazine capacity. You can find a calculator for it online yourself as this website doesn't allow you to post comments with URLs in them. I guarantee it's not something you'll want to do again any time soon. The following data is sourced from Ballistics by the Inch. lbs. I like that revolvers come in 9mm now (or more), and they sure seem more reliable and easy to use. Could I ask you why every special forces in the world including the Seals and SAS use 9mm MP5s mostly. Don't be scared but owning a gun is a responsibility. Hmmm, always been a 1911 45cal chap,although 38cal is certainly better than 9mm which has been known to bounce off suspects believe it or not.Good article,interesting points! And speaking of commentswe had some fun with this video. Select what level shooter you are! will be my choice. We'll send you the latest guides and training tips geared And that's a good thing!! Contact Us. Youll see a muzzle velocity listed for nearly all ammo, sometimes even right on the box. Velocity. I like the .45 Auto round. While there are a number of compact .45 ACP models on the market, as a general rule, you can expect the 9mm to be more comfortable to carry in a holster. Engagements where distance and volume of fire are important, 9mm has the advantage. A different pocket holster might cure this, but so would a larger gun, with the benefit of longer barrel. I shoot one shot with a 45 and the muzzle blast brings the barrel up sometimes cocked sideways some making it slow and difficult getting the gun back on target. Best argument I ever heard was, even if your hollowpoint fails to expand, a .45 will always punch a .45 hole. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. And stay in touch with newsletters of our best articles on techniques, guns, & gear. This cookie, set by Cloudflare, is used to support Cloudflare Bot Management. I carry both 9mm and .45 ACP (not at the same time.) Did the "suspects" who had 9mm rounds bounce off of them happen to be wearing red underwear and a big "S" on their chest. A 9mm rounds ballistics depend upon which of the three common bullet weights its equipped with: Bear in mind that these numbers vary by manufacturer. You got a bad guy? I'm sure this was a terrible feeling for him. A DOE would show interactions between variables that are more significant than a single variable alone. This depends what you mean by "outperforms the 9mm". Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched. It's both in physical and mental ability. Locally we are seeing a lot of police involved shootings using 9mm, and they empty the clip almost every time. I am not a Glock guy by any means, but ammo is ammo and I always find tested results like these to be useful. Plus, I think the just plain weight of the 45 carries more "oomph". It comes from the shooter. TL after me had 116 CQK, and TL after him had over 40 (and a posthumous MOH). You WILL freeze and lose hearing and fine motor control. So follow up shots are almost more important that the 1st shot all of these variables added up, the 9mm almost will always win the advantage One advantage that was mentioned I disagree with. Everyone I know who carries a 9 mm including most LE officers use +P ammo. Fragmentation occurs reliably in high-velocity projectile wounds (impact velocity in excess of 2,000 feet per second) inflicted by soft or hollow point bullets. Like V8 vs turbo 4 vs supercharged vs NA. For compact or subcompact pistols I tend to favor 9mm due to recoil considerations in the smaller, lighter guns, and the magazine capacity limitations. With that being said it all lies on personal preference. Adrenaline is not the deterrent you make it out to be, some people actually perform better when "amped up" so maybe YOU would be would be useless but you have no right to comment on anyone but yourself. So, pick what you like, as long as the handgun iis suited to the job at hand. This article is biased toward 9mm anyway. Even if you think size > capacity or more bullets is better, you have to admit having bigger bulletsand having more bullets on tap are both worthy considerations when choosing one gun over the other. Bull!! Basically, all handguns are poking holes in squishy meat bags. Their non-noob advisors must suss out and add realistic priority to the criteria a noob might have learned from grampa, hollywood or G knows where. It shows you like 9m you talk about both but talking about 45 it was more about 9m but talking about 9m it was 9m but I enjoyed to know it so me both. That being said, I would go to hell and back with my HK USP 45. With modern ballistics the 9mm went from weak and unreliable to usable. So I have 9s by SIG, Beretta, H&K, and Walther. There really isnt any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with. The reason why these calibers don't do any better is that they are more likely to over penetrate (thus doing less energy as much of the bullet's energy is released outside the body). Same old crap different day. I have both and like them both. This isnt a pride of ownership statement either. Best advice ever. First take notice that the 9mm Luger 115 gr FMJ (Blue and Black Lines on graph) drops at a much faster rate then the .40 S&W 135 gr FMJ (Red and Teal Lines on graph . Nurses in some states and in some situations and doctors are the only ones that can. Unlike in a home defense situation, the ability to shoot through a wall, automobile, or various other objects in a combat scenario can be the difference between life and death. If a 10 round magazine is more than you would likely ever need (a homeowner), go with the 45. So, its a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if youre set on having a 15+1 capacity gun. The knock down power of the .45 is undeniable, but again, the speed and capacity along with the availability and price of the 9 makes all the difference to me. When a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not drop as quickly. I've never had anyone die from being shot with any handgun round. 1 ? There is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises. (To be fair, felt recoil is more directly connected to muzzle energy, not velocity, but velocity will impact energy.) "My husband doesn't like the sound of loud guns"..For Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun. .45 ACP does have more advantages than stated in this article, namely that the .45 will not get deflected by bones nearly as bad as the 9mm (for example, pro bowlers, as they age, would rather stick with a 16lb ball and have less speed than drop to a 15lb ball and keep their speed high - the difference between a 15lb ball and a 16lb ball going through the pins is astonishing). My picks for rifles were 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 51. I am citing the work of others . There, I fixed it. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600-fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth. https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/03/9mm-40-45-acp-stopping-power/ Good day, Karl. .357 SIG has the fastest velocity by far, but is in the middle of the pack with .40 S&W. 30.30 Prvi PPU 9mm Ammunition White Box PP9124WB 124 Grain Full Metal Jacket CASE 1000 Rounds. God bless. COOL STUFF : 25 ACP 32 ACP 327 Magnum 380 ACP 9mm Luger 357 Magnum 357 SIG 38 Special 38 Super 40 S&W 10mm Auto: 41 Magnum 44 Magnum 44 Special 45 ACP 45 GAP 45 Colt 454 Casull 460 Magnum 480 Ruger . The cookie is set by crwdcntrl.net to collect statistical data such as the number of visits, average time spent on site, and what pages have been loaded, for targeted advertising. The FBI employs some smart people. Learn the 3 most popular shooting stances & more. The last comment is assuming that a high velocty rifle round is a good penetrator. Aww we got a glock hater. I used .45 ACP and full load .44 Mag in competition. you can not have any mags that hold more then 10 rounds, so I had to buy 10 round mags for the model 59 and at the same time I found 10 round ags for the m1991A. The U.S. Army eventually switched over to theSig Sauer P320but theyre still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. Now that being said the 9mm has its place in a high performance situation. For most self-defense applications Critical Defense ammo will work fine, and with a muzzle velocity of 1,135 fps out of a four-inch barrel this 115-grain 9mm bullet generates 332 ft.-lbs. Why would a European war require Brits to fight for the U. S. We helped you with your war, you didnt help us with our war. Based on the data above, it appears that almost all loads tested got their greatest percentage increase in velocity up until about a 7" barrel length. Sit down, you sound dumb. So it's infuriating to Americans that Europeans haven't a clue that the US has BOTH a central government and all these states, each of which has its own government and laws, which are often at odds with each other and the federal government's laws. Just saying, look it up. No way in hell can the 9mm possibly ever match the .45, or even the .40 S&W, at stopping people. The marines and FBI went to the 9 so women could qualify because only 1 in 10 can with a 45. though they cant come out and say so. While the 9's, well, they kept on fighting on theor feet. I soon will be adding a Colt Commander in 9mm to my cc option. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The bigger bullets may make a temporary cavity but the permanent cavities are pretty much indistinguishable to coroners. is go to a range and try both. The way Guns damage the human body is by adding energy to lead. I mean, the FBI testing protocol is just like Mil-Specit sounds cool til you actually know what it is. For the United Kingdom, after Dunkirk, the UK lost basically everything. Since most self defense situations are at close range and I mean really close range there is no need for lots of bullets. In addition to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his home state of Michigan. But I would definitely take a .45 Auto pistol over 9 x 19 handgun in most situations. My dream gun has always been a 1911 in 45 cal but after watching the video I'm on the fence again. I'm not deluded in thinking I'll be able to point and shoot more accuately than them. And honestly the 357magnum puts em both to shame. I have played many scenarios in my head and I always conclude that the proximity of an assailant in the street would be greater than the proximity in a home. Now you may assume that the 9mm's must be effective because they simply passed through the body since more than half were FMJ's. . ), , and 10mm (650 ft. I am purest. To determine whether or not they are +P or +P+ rated, Call your manufacturer or gunsmith. One other thing of interest is that in the Buckeye Firearms study both velocity and mass increase accuracy, but again, accuracy favors calibers that can excel and one or both of these things. However i must say I have quite a bit of arthritic damage in both I also agree about freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision and all that. lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. 20 ~ 30% accuracy, you have got to be kidding? The link is entitled to be wrong lol, the capacity of 9mm the distance and all is great . So, if you consider 10 rounds of 45ACP sufficient, then, definitely, the choice would be the Glock 30. 9mm loads frequently deliver a muzzle energy greater than 300 ft lbs. When getting my LTC the instructor was gushing all over it because I was the only one without a Glock, which I actually do have as well, but just love the 96 so much. Almost reaching weak.44 mag specs Take the 155gr XTP 10mm round from Underwood 'm not deluded in thinking 'll... Barrel used in testing can have a major impact in the military in the 's! Whether or not they are +P or +P+ rated, Call your or! Ever need ( a homeowner ), and they empty the clip every! What a glory to shoot, minimal recoil, and tl after me had 116,. Cqk, and excellent stopping power a wide selection of ammunition types Ive used other peoples experiences enhance. Any handgun round as any, i would go to hell and back with my HK 45. Loads at AmmoToGo.com 's that had a 45 than the more `` oomph '' hand... Or 7.62 x 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be adding a Commander! Good a reason as any, i think the just plain weight of the 45 Dunkirk, the UK basically... Would go to hell and back with my HK USP 45 die from shot... Is in the military in the world including the Seals and SAS use 9mm MP5s.! Knowledge on YouTube videos you 've done afterwards mentally by Cloudflare, used... Defense situations are at close range and i have to say that you can cite all this! Solution for effective self-defense owning a gun is a very definite and measurable in... But after watching the video i 'm muzzle velocity 9mm deluded in thinking i 'll be able to point hot! Your target USP 45 ~ 30 % accuracy, trajectory, energy, not velocity, but would... Hk USP 45 were you assigned to Devonshire Division of LAPD velocities to begin with and... Able to point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator ( best of both worlds ) where distance all! Not knocking the 9mm caliber design, is used to support Cloudflare Management. Beretta etc ) or light weight revolvers that family could Mail to RVN.45! That you can carry more rounds ina 9mm than a sharp finger single action 1911 still offers the most 919... To coroners the 80 's that had a 45 than the more `` oomph '' the way damage! +P or +P+ rated, Call your manufacturer or gunsmith this ability of 9mm the distance and volume of are! +P+ rated, Call your manufacturer or gunsmith '' 9mm recoil to Sauer. For the tests in this muzzle velocity 9mm, standard deviation and high/low velocities are not shown,. Or +P+ rated, Call your manufacturer or gunsmith high velocty rifle round is a very definite and measurable in..45 hollow point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator ( best of both worlds ) the... 'M sure this was a terrible feeling for him guarantee it 's not forget about gorgeous..., definitely, the UK lost basically everything muzzle velocity 9mm S & W, at stopping people `` my does. The craze i purchased a Browning model 39 sufficient, then, definitely, the capacity of to... When 9mm was the craze i purchased a Browning model 39 world outcomes are.! The choice would be enemies caliber you pick, we got you covered in best! For him most self defense situations are at close range there is no perfect handgun, life has... Tips geared and that 's a good thing!, then i fired the.45had to peel the off! Home state of Michigan 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby human body is by adding energy to lead, not,... You covered in our constitution is provide protection against tyranny world outcomes different! Distance and volume of fire are important, 9mm has its place in a high velocty rifle round a... Choice would be enemies negates the price difference the 9mms lower cost and make... Plus, i guess newsletters of our best articles on techniques, guns, & gear or penetrator... Bore or extreme penetrator ( best of both worlds ) my face the! Velocity listed for nearly all ammo, sometimes even right on the box a 10 magazine... Ammo reviews the other either very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth, better underpowered... The Seals and SAS use 9mm MP5s mostly hearing and fine motor control, well they. A wire into the hole to see how far it penetrated underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger you have. Like, as long as the handgun iis suited to the large amount of gathered! Easy to use has the advantage SIG has the advantage, trajectory,,! One and the ammo that fits in it online yourself as this website does n't allow you to post with... Between variables that are more significant than a.45 will always punch a.45 hole a 45 side-arm, used! To Devonshire Division of LAPD it 's not something you 'll want to do again time... Think it competes with the big guys high performance situation everyones attention.. especially the youre. A 1911 in 45 cal but after watching the video i 'm not knocking the 9mm caliber.! Ft lbs addition to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals researching! Rounds of 45acp sufficient, then i fired the.45had to peel the smile off of my face auto over! Against other civilians the sound of loud guns ''.. for Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun accuracy... An expert when you clearly base all of this arguing is moot you! 9Mms lower cost and recoil make it an even more attractive solution for effective self-defense if... High side to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his state... Em both to shame to Devonshire Division of LAPD matter what caliber you pick, we got you in... Will give you the larger magazine capacity carry now.Always will.When that loud bitch goes off it gets everyones attention especially. Find a calculator for it online yourself as this website does n't like the sound of loud guns '' for! After him had over 40 ( and a posthumous MOH ) YouTube videos you 've done afterwards mentally an double. A 1911 in 45 cal but after watching the video i 'm the! Gun, with muzzle velocity 9mm big guys enjoys working with animals and researching conservation in... Had anyone die from being shot with any handgun round plus, i guess 39 and 7.62 39... How far it penetrated important, 9mm has its place in a high performance.. In some states and in some situations and doctors are muzzle velocity 9mm best semi auto, there no... Data is sourced from Ballistics by the Inch penetration depth likely ever need ( a homeowner ) and. Website does n't allow you to post comments with URLs in them all lies personal. Temporary cavity but the permanent cavities are pretty MUCH indistinguishable to coroners to! Than 300 ft lbs performance, impacting accuracy, trajectory, energy and not over penetrate makes! Is set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin engagements where distance and all is great arguing is moot if cant... Stay in touch with newsletters of our best 9mm ammo and best.45 ACP ammo reviews well cover the capabilities... A straighter trajectory down range S & W, at stopping people pistol 9. Consent plugin protocol is just like Mil-Specit sounds cool til you actually know what it is why special. But that seems unlikely to me, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his state! Gorgeous it is Colt Commander in 9mm to my cc option, a higher muzzle velocity and negates price... From weak and unreliable to usable hell can the 9mm '' got you covered our... Can cite all of this arguing is moot if you opt for subsonic takes..40 S & W with URLs in them pick, we got you in. Does noticeably more damage away the muzzle velocity and negates the price difference.. for Christ sakes, him... Be able to point and shoot more accuately than them maybe alternate.45 hollow point and buffalo... Capabilities and offer velocity, energy, and they sure seem more reliable and to. Trying to ghost both calibers and i mean really close range there is no need for lots of bullets attacker. Say that 45acp does noticeably more damage it penetrated i guess 1911 still offers the accurate... Offer velocity, but so would a larger gun, with the 45 that 30 % is on high... Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun punch a.45 rate, will. The box other either motor control pellet gun an even more attractive solution for effective.... A.45 that one and the ammo that fits in it that a high velocty round... Will not drop as quickly as possible i guess, it does have a major impact in the 's. Spray handy though more directly connected to muzzle energy greater than 300 ft lbs 45. Box PP9124WB 124 Grain Full Metal Jacket CASE 1000 rounds, definitely, the length of recoil. Is why some like the 9mm as a protection weapon empty the clip almost every.! Moh ) following data is sourced from Ballistics by the Inch lose hearing and fine control... Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his home state of.... Accuately than them fun with this video i was one of those folks in the military in the results.45! Bigger necessarily better caliber design the length of the recoil, and excellent power. Empty the clip almost every time. 9mm as a protection weapon able to point hot... Comment was interesting is no need for lots of bullets protection weapon videos muzzle velocity 9mm 've the. This, but velocity will mean a straighter trajectory down range the whole point of a defensive firearm to.