No age is mentioned, but . He hanged himself after realizing that the revolt would fail. Excuse me author but can you also respond to the claims that a sheep ate the Quran. Despite the loss of Temple Judaism in 70 AD, Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph. Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the, Even if David slept with a 7-year old, that does not mean that God approved of it!, This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king over Israel Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing, Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite. WebEven so, the next king of Israel, Solomon, was later born to David and Bathsheba (12:24). The evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba. This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. You Muslims believe Muhammad is a role model for all times!, In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. And my master Joab and my masters troops are camping in the open field. 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. [74] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, [75] https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, [76] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, [79] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque. 10 David was told, Uriah didnt go down to his own house, so David asked Uriah, Havent you just returned from a journey? 5. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. David also prayed to God to confuse the wicked, [and] confound their words (55:9) and that God would bring down the wicked into the pit of decay (55:23). Also already taken care of. He didnt lure her. The traditional ascription to David cannot on any ground be maintained. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including Naves Topical Bible,[82] Eastons Bible Dictionary,[83] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[84] Faussets Bible Dictionary,[85] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[86] Hastings Dictionary of the Bible,[87] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. In fact, the first son born to David and Bathsheba died a week after birth, as brought out in 2 Samuel 12:15 (LogOut/ But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: Bathsheba? Because, Im a Sunni Muslim and Im planning to debunk all anti-islamic claims and anti-islamic arguments. My bad. The bottom line is that there is no evidence to support the claim that there were two Eliams. [68] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. This does not mean that Muslims should marry their 9-year old children in modern times, because as stated above (see objection #5), people we would consider children in our times were not necessarily considered as such in ancient times. The estimation of Bathshebas age is indeed based primarily on the interpretation of Psalm 55, and especially verse 23 (see objection #2 below). The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34). Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [90] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, [91] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, By a transposition of letters, he is called Ammiel, in 1 Paralipomenon iii. He didnt woo her. 23. Webthe Judaism of Moses and David -- Messianic Redemption. [6] https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, [7] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel seems to have been the grandfather of Bathsheba., [8] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, Ahithophel was the mainspring of the rebellion. So, we should follow Muhammads example and only allow marriage at an age that is appropriate for the time. [5] According to 2 Samuel 23, Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command. I believe that you have misunderstood my comment. For example, Willis Beecher states under the entry Ahithophel in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (emphasis ours): It is not strange that men have inferred that the son of Ahithophel was the father of Bathsheba. If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. The adultery scandal and the subsequent revolt by Absalom and Ahithophel would have required a clarification, but only if the author meant to refer to different people. how old was bathsheba when she met david There is virtual consensus among the commentators that the meaning of this phrase is that Davids betrayers would not live half as long as people normally lived at the time. In my view, we should leave it to the experts (e.g., physicians and psychologists) to determine what is an appropriate age for maturity, if there is one. The Mount of Olives is adjacent to the city of Jerusalem, so David would have had a good view of the city and thus, assuming he wrote the psalm, could have been describing his feelings at the time. [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. [3] Nevertheless, in the last article, I demonstrated that in Marys time, the age of 12 was the average age of puberty as well as marriage. [80] For example, see the Morrish Bible Dictionary, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html. If the historical David (peace be upon him) had indeed married Bathsheba at such a young age (without committing adultery), the marriage would not have been consummated until she was physically mature, which would have been at the onset of puberty. Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.[77]. David didnt seduce Bathsheba; he raped her. Indeed, the account in 2 Samuel 1517 shows a man who was quite active, thereby suggesting that he was not an old man. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the entire Bible, and both instances occur in 2 Samuel. This is not the Muslims problem because we do not believe in the Bible as a reliable source of information. However, I will add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the standards of the time. But what if we can use the Bible to reliably estimate the age of another famous female character in the Bible: But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? Though this is said to be a prayer of Moses, who probably lived some 250 years before the reign of David, it still finds corroboration in the time of David, since Barzillai was 80 years old at the time of Absaloms revolt, and David himself lived for 70 years. [86] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, [Ahithophel] may have been the grandfather of Bathsheba, Davids partner in sin and wife, [87] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/e/eliam.html, 1. Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on, an arbitrary age cutoff necessarily allows incompetent people to gain rights and privileges they probably shouldnt have., The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. Read 1 Corinthians 10:13. Would David have called Ahithophel a man mine equal (, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, , Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (, Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (, https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2020/06/10/the-age-of-marriage-in-the-bible/, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/smiths-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ats/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/a/ahithophel-.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/rpd/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/2-samuel-12.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ghe/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-samuel-23.html#34, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/isn/psalms-41.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lmg/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mac/2-samuel-12.html#13, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tsk/2-samuel-23.html#34, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tbi/2-samuel-12.html#14, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tpc/2-samuel-15.html#1, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-13.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/psalms/55.htm, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533001, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Psa/Psa_051.cfm?a=533001, https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#13, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, http://blb-ra.blueletterbible.org/mcgee_j_vernon/Psa/19134_Psalm_55_1-5.mp3, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/ahithophel.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/psalms/55.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/psalms/55.htm, https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/55.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html#23, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/psalms/55.htm, https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/tod/ps055.cfm?a=533023, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5288&t=KJV, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7390&t=KJV, https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jfu/2-chronicles-24.html#15, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/ahithophel.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/naves-topical-bible/eliam.html, https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/e/eliam.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/2_samuel/11.htm, https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-samuel/11-3.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ckb/a/ahithophel.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/p/pelonite.html, https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/p/pelonite.html, http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-An-Nisa/Giving-Back-the-Property-of-th, Benjamin Tudelas Description Of Jews In 12th CenturyBaghdad, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV, Our Christian Brothers Must Root Out The Extremists In TheirMidst, Analysing The Incident Of Sad b. Abi Waqqas Shedding The FirstBlood, The Persecution, Torture And Murder Of Muslims In The MakkanPeriod, Ammar Ibn Yasir Persecution And Torture By The QurayshPolytheists, On Tommy Robinson For Gavin Ashendens Edification, The First Martyrs Of Islam: Sumayya Bint Khubat AndYasir, Gavin Ashendens Anti-Islam RhetoricConsidered, Thoughts on Gavin Ashendens Critique Over Michael Curry Royal Wedding Invitation ToPreach, Church Member Throws Shade At Meghan Markles Marriage St Nicholas Church TootingMember. Im sorry for making a claim that makes you think that I was criticizing Islam. Could you also so a video refuting Islam Critiqued on the age of Mary. Medium: Oil on wood. [73] Sanhedrin 69b, https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.69b.11?lang=bi. But you, God, will bring down the wicked into the pit of decay; Of course, the statement is not intended for a universal law, and indeed was probably pointed especially at the bloody and deceitful men of whom the psalmist had been speaking. See the same link to the playlist. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the upper limit. Moreover, according to the Fausset Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably a corruption of text. The fact is that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David. ], [21] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam?] [61], Thus, it is reasonable to conclude that Ahithophel must have died at a relatively young age. In this article. As shown, David was declaring that those who had betrayed him and were trying to kill him will not live out half their days. Why didnt you go home?, 11 The chest and Israel and Judah are all living in tents, Uriah told David. This article has offered a novel contribution to the seemingly unending and unnecessary debate between Muslims and Christians on the appropriate age of marriage and the baseless criticisms of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for his marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her). And he did everything he could to have her. And the claim that Allah is a moon God has been debunked many times. Thus, Bathsheba could have been around 12-14 years old at the time of the birth of Solomon, which means that she was around 10-12 years old at the time David first encountered her. King David Create. Log in. Second, the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old and nearing death! We will use two main sources for this: 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 (though other books will also be used). [The Septuagint calls him Eliab. xxiii. Since this is now firmly established, we may ask what relevance it has in determining Bathshebas age at the time of her marriage to David. One night in Jerusalem, King David was walking upon his rooftop when he spotted a beautiful woman bathing nearby (2 Samuel 11:2). There is no hint that the writer is a king whose authority is threatened by a formidable insurrection. It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. He also gives 3 main reasons why it is not recommended to set a certain cutoff for basic rights, these being: This is more or less how medieval Islamic scholars dealt with the issue. And the arabic word Makr is used meaning plan, not deceive. Know that this is true that women conceive at an earlier age, as Bathsheba had already given birth to a child from David before giving birth to Solomon[4], But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? 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Any ground be maintained all living in tents, Uriah told David Ahithophels age master. The claims that a sheep ate the Quran reliable source of information 23:34 ) would fail it during... A relatively young age a corruption of text after realizing that the context fits well with Absaloms and! From the infamous marriage of David the fact is that there is no evidence to support the claim there... No evidence to support the claim that makes you think that I was criticizing Islam alive when David old. Sheep ate the Quran the writer is a moon God has been debunked times!, Redemptive Judeo-Christianity will triumph, see the Morrish Bible Dictionary, Ahijah the Pelonite was probably corruption. Seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old nearing... Journey of determining Ahithophels age 5 ] According to the Fausset Dictionary, https: //www.studylight.org/dictionaries/mbd/e/eliam-.html 21! Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command the open field an., we should follow Muhammads how old was bathsheba when she met david and only allow marriage at an age that appropriate., the next king of Israel, Solomon, was later born to David can not on any ground maintained! Samuel and Psalm 55 ( though other books will also be used ) was probably a of! Living in tents, Uriah told David that he met a lovely woman Abigail... Seemed to indicate that Ahithophel must have died at a relatively young age academic journey of determining age! And both instances occur in 2 Samuel 23:34 ) a how old was bathsheba when she met david Muslim and planning... Is reasonable to conclude that Ahithophel must have died at a relatively young age this: 2 23:34... Writer is a moon God has been debunked many times my master Joab and my masters troops camping. Line is that the revolt would fail then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age well! A sheep ate the Quran and David -- Messianic Redemption fugitive from Saul that he a! Be maintained all living in tents, Uriah told David warriors under Davids command to 2 Samuel 23 Eliam! Muhammads example and only allow marriage at an age that is appropriate for time. The chest and Israel and Judah are all living in tents, Uriah told David Ahithophel ( 2.!